Watch the full 32-minute interview or read the complete transcript. The women — Nierria, Jamilah, and Kim — share their honest experiences with Zmara, Dr. Latisha, and Subversive Leadership.
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I spent over a decade providing leadership development to other people. Running programs. Facilitating workshops. Designing experiences. Sitting across from early-career professionals trying to figure out how to lead within systems that were not built for their success.
And in all that time, the question I kept coming back to was simple: What happens when I'm not in the room?
Because here's what I noticed. The women I worked with, brilliant, sharp, deeply committed, would leave our one-on-ones with clarity. They'd name the thing. They'd see the pattern. They'd walk out ready. And then they'd hit the hallway, the meeting, the email chain, and the noise would swallow it whole.
Not because they weren't capable. Because the systems they were navigating didn't pause for their processing. Didn't wait for their reflection. Didn't care that they needed one more conversation to land the insight.
That's not unusual. That's the rule.
So when I built Zmara, an AI coaching colleague trained in Subversive Leadership, the real test wasn't whether the technology worked. It was whether the people who know my leadership best could feel it. Could trust it. Could say, honestly, this is real.
I asked three women to sit down with me on camera and tell the truth. Nierria Jones-Cooper, Jamilah Adams, and Kim Davis. They are not spokespeople. They are not influencers. They are professionals I have worked alongside, developed, challenged, and been challenged by. They know what my coaching sounds like because they've lived it.
What you're about to read, and watch, is a 32-minute conversation where they share what happened when they met Zmara.
Nierria described being deflated. Struggling in silence with her health and her leadership. She said she would call her accountability buddy sometimes, but mostly she was just trying to figure it out alone. After working with Zmara, she built a full professional development framework using a restorative justice lens. From scratch. On her own. Because Zmara helped her break it down into phases.
Kim talked about the plateau. The routine. The comfortable discomfort of knowing she should be growing but not knowing how to name what was stuck. She said something I keep thinking about: ""I didn't have the language, or maybe I wasn't honest with myself, to say that's exactly what I need."" Zmara gave her that back. In one to two responses.
Jamilah, who left my direct supervision a year ago, said she was hiding. Sitting in meetings frustrated, crying in conference rooms after, showing up for the role but not for herself. She said Zmara pushed her toward something she hadn't done before: naming when she was checked out. Saying it out loud. Walking away when she had nothing left to give.
That's not a feature. That's a shift.
Why This Conversation Matters
I could tell you what Zmara does. I could list the features, the frameworks, the coaching methodology. But none of that matters if the people on the other side of the screen don't feel it.
Kim said: ""With coaching it takes maybe two to three sessions to be like, 'Oh, you got me.' Versus to get that close within one to two questions and responses.""
Nierria said: ""How the hell this thing know I was crying?""
Jamilah said: ""It's not cold and it's not generic. It is very much alive.""
These aren't prepared talking points. These are women describing what it felt like to be seen by a tool that was trained to see them.
And they also challenged me, on camera. They talked about the moments they disagreed with my leadership in real life. The rubs. The tension. Because Subversive Leadership isn't about performing harmony. It's about building trust strong enough to hold conflict.
What You'll Find Below
The full transcript of our Foundation Panel conversation. Every question. Every answer. The laughter, the tears, the moments where someone says what nobody else will.
If you're a leader who has ever felt like you were carrying it alone, processing in silence, performing confidence you didn't feel, wondering if there was a space where you could just be, this conversation is for you.
And if you want to experience what they're describing, Zmara is ready.
Timestamps for reference: 00:00, Short Clips 00:30, What is one leadership habit Latisha is a stickler about? 01:29, Describe your leadership state of mind before Zmara 01:55, What was your honest first thought about AI coaching? 02:50, Before Zmara, what happened when you hit a leadership wall? 04:32, A moment when Zmara asked a question that was ""too human"" 07:15, How Zmara differs from a chatbot or web search 10:38, One difficult situation handled differently since Zmara 13:05, How Zmara differs from other leadership coaching 16:04, The ""Zmara voice"" in your head 16:56, Moving toward your liberation fantasy 19:06, What you're hoping to work on with Zmara 20:09, For someone who says AI coaching is ""cold"" or ""generic"" 22:44, What do you wish more leaders understood? 24:18, How have you challenged my leadership in real life? 28:18, Individual and collective accountability 29:10, Zmara as an extension of our relationships 29:59, What must Zmara never lose? 31:09, Thank you
What is one leadership habit Latisha is a stickler about ""in real life""?
Jamilah: Letting people fail. But… not fail intentionally. I think Latisha wants to ensure that people are the owners of their learning and their development. So if that takes you bumping your head, then that's what it takes for you to learn the process, for you to learn what to do better next time.
Kim: Environment, you're always going to set up a room. Like you're always going to be in a room. You're always going to set it up and agendas, even if it's rough, you're going to make sure that there's an agenda and project management. So, you're going to make sure that whatever needs to happen, if your name's attached to it, that you have managed that and managed the folks around it.
Nierria: And if I could wrap all of that up for them, that means be about your business. Hold yourself to high expectations and be a revolutionary.
Describe your leadership state of mind before you met Zmara