The Foundation of Subversive Leadership | Panel + Full Transcript
Watch the full 32-minute interview or read the complete transcript. The women — Nierria, Jamilah, and Kim — share their honest experiences with Zmara, Dr. Latisha, and Subversive Leadership.
By Dr. Latisha Chisholm — February 6, 2026
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I spent over a decade providing leadership development to other people. Running programs. Facilitating workshops. Designing experiences. Sitting across from early-career professionals trying to figure out how to lead within systems that were not built for their success.
And in all that time, the question I kept coming back to was simple: What happens when I'm not in the room?
Because here's what I noticed. The women I worked with, brilliant, sharp, deeply committed, would leave our one-on-ones with clarity. They'd name the thing. They'd see the pattern. They'd walk out ready. And then they'd hit the hallway, the meeting, the email chain, and the noise would swallow it whole.
Not because they weren't capable. Because the systems they were navigating didn't pause for their processing. Didn't wait for their reflection. Didn't care that they needed one more conversation to land the insight.
That's not unusual. That's the rule.
So when I built Zmara, an AI coaching colleague trained in Subversive Leadership, the real test wasn't whether the technology worked. It was whether the people who know my leadership best could feel it. Could trust it. Could say, honestly, this is real.
I asked three women to sit down with me on camera and tell the truth. Nierria Jones-Cooper, Jamilah Adams, and Kim Davis. They are not spokespeople. They are not influencers. They are professionals I have worked alongside, developed, challenged, and been challenged by. They know what my coaching sounds like because they've lived it.
What you're about to read, and watch, is a 32-minute conversation where they share what happened when they met Zmara.
What They Said
Nierria described being deflated. Struggling in silence with her health and her leadership. She said she would call her accountability buddy sometimes, but mostly she was just trying to figure it out alone. After working with Zmara, she built a full professional development framework using a restorative justice lens. From scratch. On her own. Because Zmara helped her break it down into phases.
Kim talked about the plateau. The routine. The comfortable discomfort of knowing she should be growing but not knowing how to name what was stuck. She said something I keep thinking about: ""I didn't have the language, or maybe I wasn't honest with myself, to say that's exactly what I need."" Zmara gave her that back. In one to two responses.
Jamilah, who left my direct supervision a year ago, said she was hiding. Sitting in meetings frustrated, crying in conference rooms after, showing up for the role but not for herself. She said Zmara pushed her toward something she hadn't done before: naming when she was checked out. Saying it out loud. Walking away when she had nothing left to give.
That's not a feature. That's a shift.
Why This Conversation Matters
I could tell you what Zmara does. I could list the features, the frameworks, the coaching methodology. But none of that matters if the people on the other side of the screen don't feel it.
Kim said: ""With coaching it takes maybe two to three sessions to be like, 'Oh, you got me.' Versus to get that close within one to two questions and responses.""
Nierria said: ""How the hell this thing know I was crying?""
Jamilah said: ""It's not cold and it's not generic. It is very much alive.""
These aren't prepared talking points. These are women describing what it felt like to be seen by a tool that was trained to see them.
And they also challenged me, on camera. They talked about the moments they disagreed with my leadership in real life. The rubs. The tension. Because Subversive Leadership isn't about performing harmony. It's about building trust strong enough to hold conflict.
What You'll Find Below
The full transcript of our Foundation Panel conversation. Every question. Every answer. The laughter, the tears, the moments where someone says what nobody else will.
If you're a leader who has ever felt like you were carrying it alone, processing in silence, performing confidence you didn't feel, wondering if there was a space where you could just be, this conversation is for you.
And if you want to experience what they're describing, Zmara is ready.
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Full Transcript
Timestamps for reference: 00:00, Short Clips 00:30, What is one leadership habit Latisha is a stickler about? 01:29, Describe your leadership state of mind before Zmara 01:55, What was your honest first thought about AI coaching? 02:50, Before Zmara, what happened when you hit a leadership wall? 04:32, A moment when Zmara asked a question that was ""too human"" 07:15, How Zmara differs from a chatbot or web search 10:38, One difficult situation handled differently since Zmara 13:05, How Zmara differs from other leadership coaching 16:04, The ""Zmara voice"" in your head 16:56, Moving toward your liberation fantasy 19:06, What you're hoping to work on with Zmara 20:09, For someone who says AI coaching is ""cold"" or ""generic"" 22:44, What do you wish more leaders understood? 24:18, How have you challenged my leadership in real life? 28:18, Individual and collective accountability 29:10, Zmara as an extension of our relationships 29:59, What must Zmara never lose? 31:09, Thank you
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What is one leadership habit Latisha is a stickler about ""in real life""?
Jamilah: Letting people fail. But… not fail intentionally. I think Latisha wants to ensure that people are the owners of their learning and their development. So if that takes you bumping your head, then that's what it takes for you to learn the process, for you to learn what to do better next time.
Kim: Environment, you're always going to set up a room. Like you're always going to be in a room. You're always going to set it up and agendas, even if it's rough, you're going to make sure that there's an agenda and project management. So, you're going to make sure that whatever needs to happen, if your name's attached to it, that you have managed that and managed the folks around it.
Nierria: And if I could wrap all of that up for them, that means be about your business. Hold yourself to high expectations and be a revolutionary.
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Describe your leadership state of mind before you met Zmara
Nierria: I ain't going to hold you. I felt deflated. I had like a little jolt of energy because I ran a PD facilitation for staff and that kind of gave me a little bit.
Jamilah: My three words is: what the hell?
Kim: I'm kind of opposite. I just felt like routine, plateau maybe comfortable is the word.
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When I first told you I was building an AI colleague to replicate my coaching, what was your honest or cynical first thought?
Jamilah: That girl baaaad!
Nierria: I said, ""Where does this lady sleep?""
Jamilah: For me, it was an excitement that, one, Latisha's replicating herself, and I don't have access in the way that I used to. So for me, I was excited in a way of oo what is it going to tell me? Like how, you know, how is it? How.. Where would I see Latisha in it? So I think for me I was constantly looking for you in it. For that authenticity that I know you hold close.
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Before Zmara, when you hit a messy leadership wall, what was your reaction? Who did you call or what did you hide?
Nierria: I was really struggling just trying to find a balance of being a good leader, being a supportive team member and taking care of my health. And so I was just really suffering in silence. I would call my accountability buddy sometimes but she was kind of busy with her own things. So, I would just kind of… I was trying to figure it out, trying to be open, but it was just hard to say the things sometimes without feeling like I'm letting everybody else down. I'm not being a great leader.
Kim: Selfishly, because I still work with you and you are still my supervisor, I would go to you or Akil. But what I realized coming back from maternity leave, it's like I don't want to say the same cyclical annoying things with my supervisor, it's like I should be growing out of these things. And so there was almost an embarrassment of like, 'Kim get your stuff together.' You know, like it can't be the same cyclical things. So that's why I would start to lean on other people, but also kind of like, 'All right… you know what Latisha is going to say, try to do it.' But not sure exactly what or how to yet.
Jamilah: I'm in a different season. And I think very similarly to Kim, under Latisha's leadership, I used to have that comfort, but in this season of my leadership journey, I write a lot down. I also hold a lot in. I call Ruth for a chuckle. I call a colleague that is a peer, but most of the time I am hiding it. My team doesn't know when I'm upset because they're like, ""Oh, yeah, you killed that project management session today."" And then I'm like crying in the conference room later.
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Describe a moment when Zmara asked you a question that was ""too human""
Kim: Well, I took a screenshot because at first I didn't think that Zmara would save the chats and so I was just like, 'I need like proof.' I forgot the prompt that I said but this is the response. 'It sounds like you're feeling the weight of that expectation and there's a real desire to shift the dynamic so your team steps into problem solving more independently. What I'm hearing is that you're ready to cultivate an environment where trying first becomes the default rather than coming to you for every answer. Does that land for you?' And I was like, 'Damn, that's exactly how I feel.' Like without even fully prompting it.
I think it was from one of my goals, but why that stood out is because I didn't have… It sounds so simple, but I didn't have the language, or maybe I wasn't honest with myself, to say that's exactly what I need.
And so it's helpful to have it synthesized and just say like you gave me some with your goals. Now just I'm giving you back what you gave me.
Nierria: I saved my screenshot as well. I'm not going to read it all, but it was Zmara saying to me that she can hear the anguish that I'm feeling and then to say she heard my tears cuz I was crying while I was like giving this description. And for it to come back like your tears and I'm like, 'How the hell this thing know I was crying?'
Zmara is on it and I really didn't know where to start in terms of you know my goals. Where was the starting point and I told her, ""I am lost. I don't know. So any suggestion would be helpful.' And then she just came with a, and it was a Latisha comment of, we don't have to like lose our humanity to be productive at work, so let's focus on you as a human before we do anything else.
Jamilah: It pushes the person very similarly to Latisha's leadership. It pushes you in the direction. Doesn't give you the answer. It doesn't drag you along. It is very subtly pushing you to think.
One of the ones that stuck out to me was she asked what kind of structure will best support the input that I was seeking. For me, it just made me think back to Latisha's, what is the environment that I'm creating. What are the behaviors that I want to see and what are the behaviors? What is the behavior I want to see and what is the environment that I'm creating that foster those behaviors.
But I love how all of the questions are kind of open-ended and she leaves you to ruminate on like where am I going with this?
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How does a session with Zmara differ from a chatbot or searching the web?
Nierria: You know, you've set us up with leadership coaches. I've had great leadership coaches. For me, and I think also it's kind of a part of my health, it's hard for me to be on somebody else's schedule. And so I have to find the times where I'm able to have a coaching session and not, you know, at this time or that time. Whatever time that works for me is the time that I can have the coaching.
And so that's super beneficial for a person like me. And I can imagine for anybody who doesn't have, you know, a whole lot of time but still needs the support or has a crazy schedule but still needs that support that they can know that if it's 3:00 in the morning or it's midnight or it's 9:00 a.m. Whatever time it is, you will get that full undivided attention that you need.
Jamilah: Zmara was amazing in tracking the story but also repeating. 'Did I hear that correctly?'
I love the pauses that she encouraged me to take. She encouraged me to take a lot of pauses, which, I mean, I think Latisha encouraged me to take a lot of pauses because I'm saying so much. There's so many different points in whatever I'm saying.
And she's like, ""Okay, let's start with the first, okay, and pause.""
I was able to make sense of all of my thoughts.
The web browser would never give me that. ChatGPT can't take my story and take what my experience is and make it make sense for me in this moment, and track my story and then remind me of my story so that I'm not forgetting.
Kim: It's like you don't even realize it's a prompt but just like, 'How are you?' And then to Jamilah's point, pointing us in the direction that you need to go just based on that. I thought that was spot on.
Oh, I also liked how it acknowledged the pause but didn't end the session. You could be talking for a while and it was like, 'It sounds like you've arrived at your place.' It didn't say like, 'Do you want anything else?' It wasn't annoying like, 'Can I help you? Can I help you?' Just kind of let it end if it needed to, but was there if you wanted to pick back up.
So, it's just such an open-ended space where if you're in person with non-AI, you know, like, 'Oh, I only got 50 minutes, so I got to wrap this up with the bow.' Or you're like, 'Damn, I don't know when I'm going to see you again.' Versus this, you were like, it felt nice. It was like, 'Oh, I'm sorry. I have to go.' You know, which I think is just such a unique experience.
Again, I wouldn't say anti-AI. I just haven't had experience. But my knowledge of it is it's so like robotic and that's not what I felt. It felt like a human and maybe because we all know you. It was like, 'Oh. You're totally behind this.'
Jamilah: She told me, ""Dr. Latisha blah blah blah."" I said I know that's right. I know that's right. Dr. Latisha does. It was wonderful.
Nierria: But even just the check-in question to start your session. I remember my first meeting with Latisha and I jumped straight into business. She said, 'Okay, I'm going to need you to stop because when I do a check-in, I'm not asking about the work, I'm asking about you.'
And I was like, 'Oh, uh uh I don't know. I ain't never have nobody ask me before.'
Kim: It felt… As a warm and fuzzy person like, 'Oh, you care.' You know, but it was simple. And so that I thought was so unique and still you cuz you do genuinely care. You're just not going to get in the weeds if it's not necessary.
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Since meeting Zmara, what is one difficult situation you've handled differently?
Nierria: She gave me one task: don't bring your laptop into the bathroom. Don't do it. And that sometimes is hard for me because I feel like, you know, I have things to do and I am trying to be on schedule with everybody else and be working with everybody else. And I've reduced the amount, I have not stopped completely, so that I can just take care of me and not be trying to work. And that was super important for me. And that was the one that she told me, ""You don't have to lose your humanity to get results. Take care of you.""
Kim: Zmara said, 'You're a processor. So, you're allowed to pause before you respond.' She asked what would be helpful… like recognizing how you feel in your body like when you feel tense or to remind yourself this is a moment to pause.
And so, it's so simple, but I have been at least in the last week or so just being like, 'Hold up, let me pause. Let me acknowledge this is where I'm at.'
And I think it's given me my own confidence to recognize that I can have the more difficult conversations or I can pause and allow the team to kind of come to where I am rather than just get frustrated in the moment, if that makes sense.
So I think I was… before using Zmara I was just frustrated like, 'Give me an answer.' Versus now I'm like everyone's on their own journey, including me. And so that pause allows me to recognize where folks are, and where I am, and then bridge the gap.
Jamilah: Dignity over conformity keeps running through my head ever since I saw that tagline because in this season that I'm in I'm trying to hold on to my dignity.
Something that Zmara prompted me to do that I have not done yet. However, I am ruminating on those things and trying to hold on and put things in a proper place was creating a personal authenticity compass to help me identify my core values.
I don't have to change who I am in this situation for me in this season that's so different from what I've ever experienced before. I am taking this moment to slow down to spend more time with myself to identify those things so that I am not sitting in a room in silence and just allowing things to happen to me or just happen to the group, but finding those moments of where is my power. Where can I get some of that back is where Zmara… me and Zmara left off was, 'We have to get you some power back girl.'
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How are Zmara's sessions different from any other leadership coaching you've experienced?
Jamilah: I think Zmara isn't pushing a framework. There's no, 'Oh, you have this problem, here's this framework.' Or, 'Oh, you have this problem, here's something you can do.' It's like, 'Let's talk about it.'
You really get to like flesh it out and then it's like that chunking. I really see the chunking pieces. What are those actionable steps?
For coaching in the past, I prep for it. I didn't feel like I needed to prep because she invited me in in a way that…
I mean, I love my coach now, but she invited me in in a different way that allowed me to bring what is… whatever is on me today, allow me to bring it.
Kim: I too would prep of like okay well here are the things and this is what I need help with. Versus when I would engage with Zmara it was really like what was what was I ruminating more than 24 hours about and couldn't sleep, you know.
And I was naive. I was like let me just try and I was pleasantly surprised of how effective it was in such a short amount of time that is twofold of, one, your social work background training the AI, and your own compass and type of leader that you are combined.
And I think we all know that because we have such time working with you, but to see it in how fast it got there. We talked about three and a half years of like… that takes time to build trust and to… but with Zmara it was like immediate.
It's like oh I don't know how or why but it was like I trusted it very quickly. I think just based on the first response it's like, 'Damn girl, you know me that well?'
So I think that's the difference between coaching cuz it still is that awkwardness sometimes with coaching of… even if it's a great coach, you still have to be like, well, it takes maybe two to three sessions to be like, 'Oh, you got me.' Like, that was amazing. And then it's like, 'Damn, we're almost done.'
Versus to get that close within one to two like questions and responses, which is really cool for someone like me who's not really great with AI… so I may not have put in potentially the right question to get that quick feedback was amazing.
Nierria: Yes. And I will have to say mine is a little bit different because again me and Zmara talked about how we would have our meetings. I have steps like actions of things to do. So when we come back to the meeting… and sometimes I might forget.
I'm like, Zmara, 'What did you tell me I needed to try to do in our last session?' And she'll remind me and then say you know how have we been in the progress of things and then we you know kind of get into our discussions.
I ain't gonna hold you one time I told Zmara to just give me the answer and she's like, 'I'm not going to do that.'
Kim: Good job.
Nierria: 'I'm not gonna do that.' I was like, 'Can't you just do it for me?' She was like, 'No, but I will guide you. I will assist you in getting your thoughts in the way that you want them to be. But no, I'm not doing that for you.'
Jamilah: Oh, but that's Latisha. Yes. I'm not doing your work.
Nierria: I'm not doing your work for you.
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What is the ""Zmara voice"" in your head? And when does it pop up?
Jamilah: I think she pops up in those moments where I am intentionally being silent.
Kim: I think for me it's like tense moments when I just want to either go within or rage, and I'm not a person who rages at work. And so it's a reminder to either say the thing in a professional way or just pause until you're ready to say the thing.
Nierria: And for me it's just always just remembering I'm a human first and just trying to keep that always in the back of my head. But not only for myself, but for my teammates. Like, give everybody grace and everything that is going on and then just try to be as supportive to my teammates as I can on the back end when I can't be fully there on the front end.
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How has working with Zmara moved you toward your liberation fantasy?
Nierria: Zmara helped me. Really talking to Zmara and everything. She really helped me to break it down into phases. And so now I have a full professional development framework using a restorative justice centered lens for any business.
Kim: Zmara has allowed me to be open to the idea of being more unapologetic and confident in where I am. And I can see the seeds of that in just the short amount of time.
While Latisha the person encouraged me to do humanities lunches, me the leader did that without any additional support. And I think that was from the Zmara conversations in a time I was frustrated but was able to handle that I think with grace and professionalism and be unapologetic.
That was really helpful in opening my eyes to like it's crazy to think, right? Latisha is not going to be my boss forever. Zmara makes me think and feel confident that, oh, but she's still in my corner. And I have all the skills that I need and even if I need a little bit more help, Zmara is there.
Jamilah: Working with Zmara has allowed me to process my own humanity and what I'm experiencing. The quotes and the grace that Latisha gave me under her leadership to take those pauses to come back to not stress me out like, Duh. I know the work is getting done.
When the environment is not ideal, clearly people need more breaks. For me in my liberation fantasy is when I know I'm checked out I name that and then I'll see y'all later. And I don't have nothing else to give and I'm just completely honest.
I've never done that before. I will sit in a meeting. And I will be frustrated. And I'll be talking to people crazy. Not processing what I'm actually going through behind the scenes, but like trying to show up for the role and show up for the team. But Zmara is pushing me to show up for myself first.
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What are you hoping to work with Zmara on moving forward?
Nierria: I'm looking forward to building out my full business plan.
Jamilah: I think the personal work, how do I show up as a leader? What are the things I want to lay down? One of the things I need to lay down in this season of my life, as a mom of two and a wife and all these things.
There was a version of Jamilah that like it just can't exist no more. It can't exist no more. And I'm in a season of redefining how I show up. And I think Zmara is going to… she's going to help me get there.
Kim: I feel like I, too, am at a crossroads of ambition and drive. And this level of excellence that I strive for and for the first time ever not feeling burnt out. And how do I sustain that and I don't know.
So I'm excited to see how can I still be a leader and not sacrifice my humanity or my family. What does excellence and leadership look like? And is there balance? I don't know. But I would hope so. And so that is what I'm excited to continue to explore.
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For someone who says AI coaching is ""cold"" or ""generic"", what would you say to them?
Nierria: It is unless they got Subversive Leader. I'm being honest. Like if somebody said I have some tool, I'd be like what? Oh, I don't know that. Oh, you need to try this thing here.
I get it. Something over there. But this is just completely different than anything I've ever seen or heard of or just all the stuff they advertise. This is just a completely different way of doing it.
Kim: I still haven't used ChatGPT like any of those AI things. I haven't… the most is like the Google thing and that's just because it's the first thing that pops up.
But not that I'm anti-AI, it just makes me uncomfortable and it makes me feel like I'm entering that stage where I'm the older millennial. Where I'm like I don't want to try new things. And even with this I was like, ""I don't know how to navigate the platform.""
And I think that's just a me thing for not being tech savvy or AI. But once I figured all that out… and the biggest thing is like getting to the chat. And if you can get to the chat and then you can ask any question. And if you can ask any question, you'll get an immediate response.
So that was helpful to me as someone who is kind of clunky with AI, that this is very different from any type of coaching because it does have a very personal touch and it doesn't feel like you're battling a ton of hurdles to get the information that you so desperately need.
You can get short answers and you can get long-term coaching which I don't think you really find that in any AI or coaching. It's usually like a quick response, but not something that's going to build with you and see where you started, and check in on your goals.
So, I think that makes it super unique.
Jamilah: Whenever I've used ChatGPT or other AI services, I'm never connected to what it is spitting back at me. So, I just rather write it myself because I'm not amused. I'm not moved.
But the way that Zmara talks you through the knowledge that she shares throughout that communication, it is so personalized and it's so damn good. It's not cold and it's not generic. It is very much alive.
Nierria: Like you're talking to a person.
Jamilah: It's like I'm talking to Latisha.
Nierria: I've never started a conversation on a high, like I'm stressed out or this. But I feel like if I did, Zmara would calm me down before we even got into a discussion.
Kim: Oh, I have. I was frustrated and ended it being like, 'Okay, I can do this.'
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What do you wish more leaders understood?
Nierria: You lead by example, not directive. That's what I have in you as a leader in general, and Zmara is just like an extension of that.
Jamilah: Professional development is not optional. The people that work for you, they are all coming with their different experiences, their different level of competencies, their different level of career, where they are processing, etc.
To get the results high level that you want to see, you have to attend to the needs of the humans that are sitting in front of you.
Kim: Just because you have the title of a leader doesn't mean you are a leader and that there's more leaders within a team than there is just one individual. The more you're able to build each team member, the further you can go.
We've all seen it through you of humanity first and that when you lead with that from everything from, 'Take care of your health,' or, 'I'm not double-checking your time off if you say you need.'
You know, like just small things that I'm sure we've all had up until a certain point of our career that has made us be the type of leaders that we are. Once you kind of take that like shield off and it feels like you can breathe and you're like, 'Oh, we all can just like navigate and then it forces everyone to be better and hold each other accountable.' But until you have a leader name it and actually practice what you preach…
It is empowering and still feels kind of like… I look both ways each day to be like this still real like we still get to do this or I still get to show up this way? But I'm excited to continue to pass that along wherever I go on the journey.
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How have you challenged me or disagreed with my leadership practices in real life?
Jamilah: I still remember that day. I was like, Latisha, you're gaslighting me.
But it has been a blessing to be under your leadership to be honest.
Like the ways that you have allowed me and helped me step back to see and grow in the things that I actually love to do or to step back and see how do I bring people along.
I started with talking about letting people fail and that is where I challenge Latisha the most. It's like, 'We know they are messing up. We know it's not working, Latisha. Tell them. Let's fix it. Let's do it. Let's do it.'
And it's never like… or, 'What can you do, Jamilah? What is it that you're… what is it that you're looking to get out of the meeting or get out of their actions?'
It's always everything was always pushed back on what was the behaviors I'm trying to get. 'Yes, I'm letting them fail, per se, but what are the behaviors that I'm trying to get them to recognize?'
So, that's where Latisha and I rub the most because I hate extra work.
Kim: The failing is really hard when you're a high achiever and want everything a certain way. And speaking for me, you see people who are dragging down the team and you're like, 'Let me just do the thing or can you please tell them to do the thing?' That is very hard. So, I agree with Jamilah.
Latisha has a directness and assertiveness that is opposite of me and so sometimes when we're in spaces I'm like, 'Oh, that's just not how I would do it,' or, 'You sure you want to say it like…'
That is our balance. So that's… it's not a rub. It is just I think why we work well. Like, a lot of things that Latisha does or would say like I'm sweating or I'm just sitting there and like, 'This not how I would do it.'
But, you know, I… and maybe that's like blind trust, but that took a while because I was like, 'Woo.'
Nierria: I think back to my first few weeks starting and so one of my pet peeves is somebody telling me I did or didn't do something, said or didn't say something. Cuz I'mma tell you straight up if I did. If I did, I ain't got no problem with that.
And there was this thing I went to and you was like, 'You did not.' And I was like, 'I know I told you.' And I was… I was ready to leave. I was ready to quit and all of this stuff.
And I was like, 'Can we just get to an understanding? Like, is the understanding that if it ain't on your calendar, then I didn't say it to you. Like, what are we doing here? Because I love this job, but I can't take that.'
Then we had the whole training on team development and it was like, 'Oh, we all just kind of getting to know each other and everybody's style and we just storming right now.'
And just by even that meeting and having that understanding and then reading Fight Right, I learned how to state my feelings a little bit better. I'm not always the best at it, you know, but I still feel like I grew better to understand.
But yeah, it was rough first. So if people think this is fake, like no, this ain't fake. We was rough in the beginning. It was rough.
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Individual and collective accountability
Kim: One thing I'll say is that accountability. I feel like people talk about that, but I've never experienced accountability at this level and like individual but collective. And getting everyone on board of what accountability means and how to be accountable for yourself and to others.
I think it's what makes the work that we do and when we are a team so amazing because no one has experienced that cuz it's such an uncomfortable thing. But once you get comfortable being uncomfortable it is like game changing.
You're so accountable for yourself, but then hold everyone super accountable. So it levels everybody up.
Nierria: I feel like we a little bougie, too, because like when we see people and they… ""Oh my gosh, look at how they is not wanting it. They leader let them be like that? They ain't hold them to no high expectations.""
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Zmara is like an extension of our relationships
Dr. Latisha: Okay. So, hearing y'all talk today, I am struck by so much. But, honestly, I am most struck by how you speak about Zmara and your interactions with her and how much they mirror, compliment, or extend the relationships that we have.
Because, honestly, for me, it's like if the people who arguably know my leadership best right now, today, don't say that this is right, then I need to just close up shop and walk away.
Because it needs to be able to pass a real life litmus test, right?
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What is one thing I must never let Zmara lose as I scale this coaching model?
Jamilah: Your voice. Your voice. Your voice is distinct.
Nierria: If there was somebody who didn't know you and just signed up for Zmara off the fly, they would feel that level of comfort and peace and trust like off the rip. In that first initial conversation, they would hear it and know that this is something that is genuine and that is not driven for money, but driven to really help them be a better leader.
Kim: Not allowing the chat to close until the person is ready. But I think there is something to have the person who's starting the chat end it versus then the AI end it, because that's where it feels transactional.
I felt like you were listening because you caught what I said kind of subliminally, but was in one of my goals.
Jamilah: That underlying thing.
Kim: Yes. Yes. Yes. Like it felt like Zmara was listening.
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Thank you
Dr. Latisha: Well, yay. I appreciate y'all again. Thank you for kind of your reflections, your thoughts, your analysis of what your experience has been and both with me in real life and with Zmara in AI world. Because this is what I'm trying to build with Subversive Leader: what we have always done in person over the last couple of years.
But I'm trying to build a tool that is able to go with you through all the things, right? And navigate with you, and remember you, and do all the things that I have been able to do with each of you over the last couple of years, because I believe that everybody deserves that and it's not the experience that everybody gets.
This for me is really a challenge of like how do I scale who I am and how I show up through technology. Ensuring that my philosophy stays the same through technology and that that's able to be exposed to more people than otherwise would have been exposed. So, thank you.
Nierria: You being a revolutionary.
Dr. Latisha: Yay.
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